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Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
1
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Posted - 2012.05.29 02:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
haha notice how those who oppose such suggestions are always the gutless rats incapable of fighting a fair gun fight and so make themselves feel big by picking on the very people trying t help provide the very ships they fly and ammo they shoot, in this that is supposed to be an economy driven game.
less alt accounts might make the gankers appreciate the miners hard work to keep the chain of supply and demand going more.
i think it needs some refining of course but i support this. they always bang on about balance when making updates but where is the balance for the industrialists? it needs to change! as said it doesn't matter your views on it the fact is this will only drive away new players and leave ccp with no income. then you will have no game to gank in at all.
Theft is fine and is part of the game but i feel something like can flipping is more an exploit, as i explain and make case for here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114684&find=unread
its time to start balancing the odds for those who do the hard work. its not about stopping criminality and PvP and its not about making the game 100% safe. its just about evening the odds, its about or old friend "balance", and matching things up in the respective sectors of space. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
2
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Posted - 2012.05.29 14:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ha! Its oh so simple for all the Rich Btch (IRL) Players, with no life and their multi accounts to sit and say this is what you need to do to get along. But some of us don't just have money to throw away. And yes we can join a corp and team up, we do, but that only covers maybe 75% of game play at most. But there will always be times where e are left to our own devices.
Now i agree PvP is an important part of the game and that there is always risks and such.
But seriously, when did it become acceptable to pick on the little guy. Its utterly pathetic! Id like to say you wouldnt do it IRL, but i dont know. Your probably the type of people who would beat partners and children cos it makes you feel big.
But your not, your crap. You have simply played long enough to earn enough ISK and train enough skills to fly these ganking ships. And now you hide in high sec getting your little kicks hitting at the hard workers working to provide the materials you all need. If you were actually any good, truely had any skill, you would P*** of and find a real fight, more evenly matched.
If the consensus is that ganking is fine, then sure ill go with that, ill watch my back and just try to get on. But dont act like your the high and mighty for doing it. If we're playing it that way then accept your role; you are the Scum, the lowest of the low of Eve and nothing more. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
3
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Posted - 2012.05.29 16:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Claire Raynor wrote:Sorry if I offended you with my post.
Its not that you offended me, not personally. Just that it gets frustrating that this suggestion always crops up lol.
Now i'm a student, i don't have allot of money nor always allot of time to be on Eve training everything up and earning mega ISK. I like to play in my spare time to just relax a while and have a chat with others. and no i wouldn't complain about greifing in an FPS but that is because an FPS is specifically for fighting and killing.
However Eve is an MMO RPG and a sandbox one at that. That means its aimed at a wide base of players and fully intends to provide a rich variety of game play styles. That includes both the fighting and killing side and the gathering and creating side.
What really gets me is that every point of development bangs on and on about "BALANCING" but this is only ever for military players. Where is the balance for newer players and miners getting blown up in high sec by ships that belong in low sec systems with adversaries of similar power and skill (I use the word skill VERY lightly) |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
4
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Posted - 2012.05.30 13:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Koreli Stelios wrote:Ha! Its oh so simple for all the Rich Btch (IRL) Players, with no life and their multi accounts to sit and say this is what you need to do to get along. But some of us don't just have money to throw away. And yes we can join a corp and team up, we do, but that only covers maybe 75% of game play at most. But there will always be times where e are left to our own devices.
what is the 25% that you can't do?
What???
I wish people would read and think before they pose weird questions and make points.
Im referring to Time not physical Activity. What only covers 75% of time playing is teaming up with people in a corp. You see its all there in that one sentance. "But there will always be times where we are left to our own devices" ergo refering to the remainder of the time spent playing, the 25% you question, as being solo play.
Ok, just to be clear:
- 75% Team Play
-------------------------- = 100% of time spent playing.
- 25% Solo Play
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Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
4
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Posted - 2012.05.30 14:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Claire Raynor wrote:My post got messed up - I can't be bothered typing it all out again.
Just for future, when you hit post and it goes blank go to the reply bit again it should pop up a little message saying it has this draft saved of your message :)
Grace Ishukone wrote:There is no real risk to gankers, that is the critical issue. People keep talking about risk vs reward ...
Sinistersly wrote:...us shippers having really NO WAY WHATSOEVER to counter such tactics other then simply not flying at all. How's that a balanced risk vs reward ratio exactly?
And as to the previouse two posts - THANK YOU - finally some sense being spoken. Not just Pew Pew guys coming in here ranting on trying to push us down to maintain there utterly gutless tactics.
What you guys have said is precisely the point i have been trying to get across to. Its supposed to be a sandbox game with many different roles and miners should be free to play a mining role without having to be military experts as well. As i have continually said CCP's main policy is balance and yet there is NO Balance for industrialists. We are being pushed out of the game by players who have no real interest in playing an RPG and Sandbox game for what it is and as it should be played.
I... Honestly i couldn't say any more. Again this is precisely what I've been trying to get across and i can only agree with everything that you both have said. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
4
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Posted - 2012.05.30 14:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:- Suicide ganking results in greater sec status loss.
- GCC flagged characters pods are destroyable without CONCORD intervention.
I like your ideas and perhaps it should be more subtle.
But the fact is High sec is supposed to be Low Risk... and before anyone starts crying i'm not asking for no risk but it SHOULD be low. Yes it should because other wise CCP would not have made a gradient of Sec statuses at all. The gradient from High to Low to Nul is supposed to indicate the varying levels of risk. But as it stands the risk in high sec is far too high.
The only suggestion i have made on this matter before was with regards to Can Flipping. That being that if a theft from you can be recognized, in order to flag another player, then it should not be a great leap to recognize those items as yours and allow you to take them with no consequence no matter where they reside so long as that place is accessible to you.
The entire point of this idea was simply to suggest something that would create more balance in game play. Those who want to steal would have to use the proper tools for the job, such as a hauler to grab a large amount, less i simply take my haul away before they get a hauler there. Yet as it currently stands they can leave our goods in their own cans for half hour while we are powerless to ever attempt to get them back. Furthermore to this point is that if they had to use proper tools in order to get away with stealing large worth while amounts they would now be in a hauler NOT an over the top fighting vessel. So solo or group miners would be afforded the opportunity to chase them down and destroy them while they are in a relatively defenseless ship, and with no consequence for doing so due to the aggression flag they picked up when stealing that players items. Now that would be true Risk Vs Reward and far more balanced game play.
Now i'm not saying this is a great idea and perhaps it is not truely workable, but at least it is in the right direction. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
6
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Posted - 2012.05.30 17:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
No i'm fully aware of what high sec space is like At the Moment. But my definition is based on what CCP and the tools they implement suggest it should be.
Ok Drake i'm going to spell it out for you nice and clear because you really need to stop acting as though people with the same sort of views as me are wrong.
Neither you Or I are wrong at this point.
What it comes down to is weather OVER ALL players decide they want a purely Pro friendly game with very few new players entering. (Which personally i only see leading to stagnation and collapse)
OR
Whether OVER ALL players decide they want a full Sandbox RPG that encompasses all levels of difficulty and security. As such providing a much more low risk high security areas that enable new players to grow more easily and so keeps the game fresh. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
8
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Posted - 2012.05.30 20:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Spikeflach wrote:
Game age doesn't make anyone less or more privy to what EVE is or isn't. Trying to say someone has no right to make suggestions is like saying a person straight out of whatever school they were learning at has no right to work as whatever they were learning to be until they worked as what they were for a year.
There is all kinds of content in eve, and just because PvP is part of the game doesn't mean PVP is the game.
I disagree....EVE Online takes at least 6 months at best to at least get a good understanding of many basic concepts...people assume after playing a mount or two they know everything and how it works...this isn't the case. Arguably longer. I'm not saying I won't hear good ideas....but I have yet to see one bloody good thing from this noob ever since he started prattleing off about can flippers and "fair fight". Am I being prejudiced? Yes until such time he actually has a rational sane point that doesn't break game mechanics. What other mechanics are there to learn? Taken that the 3 month character or 6 month character, however old he was had a hulk, and had the notion of being able to fly the ship out to the belt and mine, and also most likely ability use drones to shoot at the tiny belt rats. which would indicate his ability to target things hostile. Yet players with even greater game experience think up even dumber ideas, at least in your eyes. People know PVP exists in this game. It isn't the end all be all of this game. There's an overwhelming amount of PvE content in eve which amazingly enough people get their kicks out of. 1. anomolies 2. DED sites 3. Wormhole sites 4. Mining 5. Manufacturing 6. Hacking sites 7. Incursions 8. Missions 9. Cosmos missions 10. Salvaging 11. Sites with Escalations 12. Incursions 13. Epic Arcs Playing the market, i think is suggested as a PvP activity, so not sure if that would be included as a PvE aspect. Heck, even "PvP" content is PvE. 1. Shooting POS 2. Shooting IHUBs or SBUs 3. Shooting Stations 4. Shooting POCOs Heck, its not really PvP unless you got an actual person shooting back... PvE activities that can become group activities should be catered to in some way as much as PvP is catered to. Ok, maybe I digressed a bit, but just because someone has less gametime than you, and that they choose not to spend their time in the hell hole known as 0.0 space, doesn't make them any less qualified than you to make suggestions to the game. A game which people people say is 90% PvP and argue that any suggestions that cater to PvE gameplay will break the game.
You cant expect these people to have any skill to do these sorts of things you have listed. They require true skill knowledge and tactics because the things there actually pose a threat to them. That's why they so aggressively oppose such changes as suggested, they are only capable of feeling big by killing the defenseless and Industrialists. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
9
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Posted - 2012.05.30 21:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
I know he is on my side and i appreciate what he is saying. My point is trying to get that across to guys like you is like talking to a brick wall. You will never see and take on and try to understand others points of view because you only want things they way they suit you. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
11
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Posted - 2012.05.31 12:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:This is seriously messed up stuff.
Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing here?
Lady Flute is really insane....seriously so.
I don't think I can process that much garbage in one go.
Yeah...I'm done here.
*Blocks*
No PVP Zones my ass.... EVE Online has been in operation for a very long time.... anyone who hints at its death..needs head examined.
No. Nobody is seeing what your seeing. And of course you cant process that much at once, we already worked out small broken up sentances is about your limit 
Now i think part of the trouble is your taking this far to personally. its not about getting at you but about being realistic and because we all like playing Eve, but only see its demise ahead, are trying to do something to save it. Now lets break it down in to Drekey sized chunks :)
- New players cant get a foot hold so do as you would suggest and DONT play so NO PAY
- New games come out that challenge Eve such as:
- The Darkness game Lady Flute Mentions
- OR, and a very good contender as it is set to be quite the sandbox http://www.thesecretworld.com/
And so players are drawn Else where and so far as Eve goes new players just DONT play so NO PAY
- CCP realises a large chunck of its player base has left so updates less frequently. Soon the majority of its Low and Null secers get completely bored and DONT play so NO PAY (if they even were paying)
- Finally CCP realizes they pretty much lost money on their big recruitment ad campaign so cut there losses and shut the game down. At this point there is just NO PLAY
Eve is like an elderly relative continually having heart attacks. It will be sad for us all to see it go but if it doesn't get better it may be for the best.
Lady Flute probably makes the most sense here. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
11
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Posted - 2012.05.31 12:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if the only change CCP really needs to do, is to make it so pods aren't treated specially. I.e. a -10 pod would get popped just like he would in a ship.
vOv
Mhmmm, a bit like Conc just look the other way if anyone wants to warp scram and pod that defenseless little blob cos he is a gutless criminal. Sounds all good. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
11
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Posted - 2012.05.31 12:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Koreli Stelios wrote:Nooblet prattle And the nooblet bleats like the sheep we expect them to be. So yeah....moving on.
xD You gunu call any one sheep? You with your Cookie Mold ship fit linked to you in some chat or found on some third party site.
Oh and don't tell me its not, can tell just by the way you talk it is. You wouldn't have the first clue about tactics, let alone understand even the most basic of frigs can be useful past the first few days of play if you know how to work in a team.
Nope you'll have the same old ship with the same old fit, that is the greatest indication of stagnant things are becoming. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
11
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Posted - 2012.05.31 13:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Yeah. It's always struck me as a bit weird how they shoot ships, but not pods, but I believe that's because CCP didn't want people to get podded by surprise. But I wouldn't be surprised if CCP decides that the ganking problem has become so prevalent now that they have to change that part of the mechanics.
Honestly, I'm not seeing what all the rage is, all you have to do is really think of something simple like this, and propose that to CCP.
Yea no this is a good point. Eve if it had to just be that Conc will pod any player it has to get involved with. xD Well just don't get involved with Concord!
But no like you say surely a certain negative standing could allow it and allow other players to do it with no Concord retribution. Because of course just allow Concord pure rights to pod would probably lead to people finding ways to get some one to attack them just to get them Conced. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
17
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Shylock Shlomo wrote:I'm sorry, I didn't check how far this thread went on. My previous post is probably irrelevant at this point.
Yea and you were banging on about some PLEX crap and about not spending real money on buying into ships you cant pilot..
So what about the people who don't have money to throw away, who just run the one account, who take their little mining frig out the Tutes and spend hours working damn hard to build up. The guys who maybe just want to play pretty casually in their spare time and enjoy the nicer side of the community. The ones who manage to work up to their mining cruiser ore maybe the basic ORE barge only to have it all ripped away from them by some gutless pathetic little skilless sht who probably has to much money to waste both in and out of game. I mean really, are we that lacking in morality and if nothing else self respect that picking on the defenseless little guy and acting like that makes you tough and shows any skill what so ever is acceptable?
Lady Flute wrote:*A lady i agree with strongly all the way on this subject*
Hopefully despite all the crying done by the "PvP'ers", who will fight this all the way in defense of getting their own selfish pathetic kicks, CCP is listening and as mentioned will hopefully bring improvements with the winter update. The proposed ORE Mining Frig concept looks awesome and the changes suggested, to me, look promising :) They seem at least to be one step in the right direction.
Id also like to add i do know there are proper PVP'ers out there. The ones who know how to play an MMO, who have the knowledge to work in a team or the skill to even go solo against ships that actually come some where near matching them and are in areas they can expect combat.
I think just simply remembering that you cant just freely engage in combat in high sec is the biggest indicator that this type of ganking IS wrong. |
Koreli Stelios
Mining Manufacture and Muling
17
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Posted - 2012.06.28 21:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Xorv wrote:Lady Flute wrote:[...]The critical issue is that with the current game mechanics, it is simply not possible to prevent someone killing a mining ship. You literally cannot stop them, as discussed above "it is too easy". Conceptually, miners should be able to have pvpers guard them if they want to: but that is not actually a valid tactic in highsec, until the greifers fire, there is no right to fire upon them. And the new ships and power of alpha strikes now means that it is simply not possible to stop the kill.
That's broken.[...]
You're quite right it is broken, but you fail to see why, even after spelling out most of the relevant facts yourself in your own posts.. Simply in game like EVE, the farms and fields which includes mining shouldn't be in what is High sec to begin with. It's because you can gather resources under the protection of CONCORD/Crimewatch that players resort to suicide ganking, and it's because of those same CONCORD/Crimewatch mechanics that player guards as you suggested simply don't work, It isn't CCP failing to deal with Highsec "Griefers" that has been holding back this game, most of those players are better thought of as part of the immune system response of the Sandbox to unhealthy anti-sandbox gameplay. What's holding back EVE from it's real potential is the Themepark-ish game mechanics found in Highsec, and CCP's unwillingness to really address that problem.
I'll simply ask of this: How will these high sec players ever get to more lucrative low sec areas, where they would fully expect to be targeted and so accept then if they were popped and but also be prepared to counter and or defend, if they are for ever getting ganked and losing all in what i suppose we could term the "Nursery" of Eve?
Players need some where to grow an learn the ropes to enable them to move on. And don't forget that some times even the "Immune System" gets it wrong. It actually harms the body, that's called an allergic reaction.
Maybe if there are not enough players in low sec areas to keep the gankers occupied its because they are preventing other players from ever managing to get there. |
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